Or…what makes erotica erotica?
I was on this panel at the RT conference this year that was for erotica authors…and I don’t write erotica. Not that I have anything against it. I didn’t realize the panel was slanted that way until the panel started. Definitely one of those oh, crap what have I gotten myself into moments! I really need to pay more attention to what I sign up for. Anyway it was too late now and I was sitting there with sweat slithering down my back.
And to add to my state of panic my editor was sitting next to me and I really didn’t need to sound like a dimwit with my editor. When the discussion got to me I had to come up with something real quick and I just said that I don’t write erotica. I write really hot steamy sex but not erotica and then I listed all the things I don’t include in my sex scenes or my plots or my characters and…in my opinion…what made my stories not erotica. That seemed to work well and one of the erotica authors stood and said…we do all the things Dianne doesn’t.
Sooo, the question is… What do you think is the line in the sand… What makes a book an erotica read or just a hot steamy read? What lines are crossed that puts one book in one category and one in the other? And do you think the erotica tread is here to stay? And again, do you feel more comfortable downloading erotica books than buying them in a bookstore?
First, I think the line needs to be drawn between erotica and erotic romance because they’re not interchangeable!
I actually did a post on this recently and go over it in depth in my new Complete Idiot’s Guide to Writing Erotic Romance.
Bottom line, erotic romance requires a romance. Erotica, does not! Erotica can explore love, but it also explores different emotions. And in the end, the line is always going to be in the eye of the consumer!
I have read some erotic and don’t find I like them as much as erotic romances because I like Happily Ever after ending and more of a storyline than just sex every minute.
I thinks many women are more comfortable download these books instead of going into a store.
Erotic seems just to concentrate on all the sex scenes without much character bonding or a interesting story.
Yes, I agree, romantic erotica has a story, erotica does not and I prefer the rom. erotica. I think the erotica is much more graphic in the actions as well as a more guttural language used.
I dont download anything so that is not an issue for me. Probably most women would rather download.
From what I see on the boards, I do think erotica is here to stay.
I like to read erotic romance. I’m not that big of a fan of erotica. Sex, not much of a story and no romance. That’s not for me.
It seems to me that publishers often call books erotica when they really should be called erotic romance because they have romance and the opposite also holds true, too. I think it’s very confusing to a reader. I’m not embarrassed to go in a store and buy erotic romance. I don’t, though, walk around with the books with the steamy covers on them. I really don’t want to read the hot, hot books outside of my home.
From what I see on the boards, I do think erotica is here to stay.
Erotica has been here since the days of Anais Nin, Henry Miller, Vladimir Nabokov, and others! Erotic romance is the newer kid on the block!
I read Erotic romances, but I would never read erotica.
A story is for me erotica, when the main focus is on sex and there is no real plot. The sex scenes are more than 50 % of the story. Whereas in erotic romances the main focus is on the romance plus there is a good balance between plot and sex scenes.
I am not embarrassed to get erotic romances in a book store, I still remember my first trip to Waldenbooks to get them. They weren’t on the romance shelves, but you could find them among the sex manuals, etc and the shop assintent (a cute young man) was blushing when he showed them to me.
Erotica may be here to stay, but it is not a line that I read. I like to read stories that have a story based on them, they can have hot, steamy sex in them, but also have a story line – whether it be a suspense romance or a light hearted romance, but the underlying thing is there is a story, the characters are well developed and it is not a book that is just sex, for the sake of sex. So I guess in the end there is a market for both types of books, which keeps everyone happy. I download very few ebooks, but that is just my preference – I would rather go to a store and browse the titles myself.
Erotica books can and do have stories! They’re just not romances! When my ex-Blaze editor moved to Spice to work, she gave me a list of several literary erotica works to read. One was basically a women’s fiction story, the protagonist discovering a lot about herself – and some of that was through sex.
Don’t think erotica is just string after string of sex scenes with no story! In some cases it might be, but those are not shining examples of the erotica genre, just like stories with poor characterization are not shining examples of erotic romance!
Alison,
maybe I just discovered the bad examples of erotica books, plus I like books with HEA.
Danny – I’m with you. I prefer all that hot & fun action to result in an HEA. I’m not an erotica reader, but I do know that the genre has it’s own readership and they have their own expectations, just the same as romance readers do!
That big problem is that many people think erotic romance & erotica is the same and that everything is porn.
Danny – I agree with you in that I have a friend who has critized me for reading what I do, because she classifies all of them as porn. And because of this will not even read a Blaze book and cannot understand why people promote such things. **shrugging** I do not agree with her assessment and have stated so, but that is her feeling and not one she is about to change.
I know people who even call “normal” romances porn. I just ignore these comments, these people don’t know what they miss. It is no generation problem because my mom & granny read the German translation of e.g. Blaze books.
My inlaws think I’ve got one foot in hell for what I write. Then again I never did get along with my inlaws!
One of the reasons I use a pen name.:wink:
It’s great that we have so many types of stories to choose from.
IMO, Ellora’s Cave is the one who broke ground here. They took what women want and gave it to then. Terrific stories and authors.
I loooove a success story!:grin:
I like a book with a hea and a story line, so really not into erotica. Will read an occasional erotic romance.
I do prefer erotic romance but I don’t have anything against erotica. I’ve read some but I need to see the connection between the h&h and the focus tends to be the sex as a basis for a relationship.
If I want it, I’ll buy it at the store, but I have downloaded some (most recently one by Sylvia D. and I have to say it was most enjoyable).
i don’t read erotica. I Prefer drama and suspense with great characterization and plot.
I disagree with those who state erotic has no plot or characterization. It most definitely does. What it does NOT have is the same degree of romance, nor does it need a happily-ever-after ending.
But sex without plot and character? LOL That DOES have name…porn!
Erotica is not for me – have read a few. Will read occasional erotic romance. I like a hea, and a definite story and character development. From the few I read, they have been a litte too dark for me. I have nothing against erotic; just not my thing. Different strokes as they say. I do think erotica will be around for quite some time.
I will read an occasional erotica but I like to have the romance, drama, and suspense in a book too!
Everyone likes different degrees of steam in what they read but everyone agrees that they really want a good story and engaging characters.
i have not read many erotica to compare to them. but i would try them and i still like traditinoal romance with a happy ending. a romance with a good story should be good and not just with out the sex,.
I agree there’s a difference, which has already been defined here. I’ve read both, and I prefer much rather prefer erotic romances. I love the HEA – I am more of a romantic so to have the declaration of love and commitment is really what I’m looking for.
I agree with Alison that not all erotica is just pages of sex scenes. I also don’t believe that all erotica is without feelings. It could be about someone discovering their sexuality and it just doesn’t end with the traditional happy ending. I also think it can be written intelligently and not be pornographic and demeaning to women. That, to me, is the difference between erotica and porn – porn is more about what one partner, usually the man, wants with little or no regard for the other person. It’s not sexy.
It’s a little disturbing to me that anyone would consider any kind of romance to be porn. I think that’s where a lot of misconceptions about sex and some of the negative views come from, especially in relation to women, like it’s wrong for a woman to enjoy sex in any way, even in a committed, loving relationship. But that’s probably a conversation for another time LOL.
I download mine or buy them from Amazon because the closest bookstore is 2 hours away.
I believe that good erotica always has a plot arc, but that it is a different kind of plot arc than we are used to in romance and other genre fiction. When I wrote CARRIE’S STORY and SAFE WORD, I was always thinking about how to keep the reader turning the pages — not just to gawp at the next salacious episode, but to see how the characters’ relationship, options, and desires changed. And I wanted them to wonder how or if these people would get a chance at the lives they wanted. Sounds like a plot arc to me.
I haven’t read in the new erotica lines from Kensington, etc, but I will be curious to see how they manage it.
And for a set of alternative solutions, I’d recommend the erotica anthologies from outside the romance publishing world: edited by Susie Bright, Violet Blue, carol Queen, Marilyn Jaye Lewis, and Maxim Jakubowski, for starters.
I havent read many erotica – but have read some more erotic romance and think they will both be around for awhile. I do prefer what I will call regular romance with some good hot scenes.
What the difference is I think is the explicitness, language. And there is probably more of a storyline and indepth background info on the h/h.
Hi Dianne!
For me Erotica itself, my understanding it doesn’t have a HEA. I prefer a story with a HEA. As for Erotica Romance or some call it Romantica I enjoy some, others not. Then there are Brava’s Love those! I love romance stories and can’t wait to read more!
I want a HEA, too. I think erotic romance and erotica will be around for quite some time. I mix the books I read so I don’t get tired of one type. I can’t read the hot ones all the time.
I don’t read erotica as you have explained it but I am sure it will be around for a long time.
Well! This is sure an interesting topic! Everybody has their own opinion. I personally like stories with a plot with the sex infused in-between the story lines.
Now the stories that are defined as “Erotica” cater to the public who like to read about explicit sex with the plot infused around the main sex scenes.
I think the line drawn is pretty distinct. I have read an erotica book that had a lot of sex scenes in it but a fantastic story line was woven through it that held me to the end. Most books don’t have that many sex scenes and are plot based.
Sex sells these days. So I think the trend will be around for a while.
Hope everyone had a fantastic Labor Day weekend!
In a nut shell erotica is all about the sex, romance centers around the romance. The sex can be steamy but the romance between the h and h is the key.
Dianne,
I think that summarize it perfectly!
Very well put, Dianne.
Hey Dianne,
I think the line is drawn when it gets kinky and you start using the “nasty” words to describe certain acts and body parts. LOL.
I also believe that the “line” needs to be more specific for romance readers because I know some people won’t pick up erotica and believed the book they were getting was just plain ole romance, when in fact it was pure erotica.
Great question!
Billie Jo
i don’t know much about erocita have not read it alot. i agree with most of the comments. there has to be a story and the sex scene just comes with it.
HelenKay did a blog entry on her definitions of the various “genres” and I just happen to agree with her.
http://helenkaydimon.com/blog/2006/08/the-things-we-know-and-dont/#comments
And as I said there, I believe that what constitutes porn/erotica/romantica, etc is a personal issue influenced by the person’s upbringing, beliefs, education, and background.
As Danny said, some people may classify straight out hot romance as erotica/porn..whatever. But you know, one person’s kink is another person’s vanilla!
But who decides what words are “nasty”? You may be offended by some words that don’t bother me.
[...] At the new Brava Blog, Dianne Castell recently brought up for discussion the topic of erotica and romance. Via Bookseller Chick and an article at Publishers Weekly, I’ve found a definition that seriously works for me. What do you think? [...]
There is so much more to erotica than the sex. Unfortunately, as with all new trends, some people try to jump on the bandwagon without haveing a true understanding of things, and in this case , that means there are a lot of books out there right now that are not real representations of what erotica is.
True erotica has a story, it has characters that readers can identify with, and it is full of emotion. Yes, there is sex, but how explicit it is or how much of it there is is NOT what makes it erotica.
I think erotica is not a trend, but erotic romance might be. Erotica has been around for decades, and will be around for decades to come. Just my opinion.
“A story is for me erotica, when the main focus is on sex and there is no real plot. The sex scenes are more than 50 % of the story.”
In my opinon, This is not erotica, this is just bad storytelling, no matter the genre.
” I’d recommend the erotica anthologies from outside the romance publishing world: edited by Susie Bright, Violet Blue, carol Queen, Marilyn Jaye Lewis, and Maxim Jakubowski, for starters.”
I agree. And in reading these, I think people will notice that not all erotica is all sex, or always extremely explicit.
I think alot of the confusion is form erotic romance authors callingwhat they write erotica, and then newer romance publishers not being clear in what it is they are publishing. It makes it hard for readers, and writers to deinfe what their stories are.
I suggest readers look at the authors, and not the publisher or the line. Done’t be afraid to try new authors, just because a Line touts itself as erotica, or someone else says it’s too much sex. The best way is to try if, and make individual judgements.
[...] Dianne Castell on what makes erotica erotica. [...]